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 Post subject: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:53 pm 
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I'm not quite done the book, but I have already noticed a trend:
Pretty much every doctor/nurse/Counsellor/psychologist in the book is not a nice character.

Do you think that is a justifiable characterization of real life doctors, etc? I know I have met some perfectly nice professionals who are just there to help me, I'm not sure about you guys.
I'm not saying that Emilie is lying or exaggerating in this book because it is the truth after all, but I dunno...
I'm just curious of this is changing you're views at all, or if any of you can relate to her bad experiences with doctors.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:01 pm 
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lyra_lolita wrote:
I'm not quite done the book, but I have already noticed a trend:
Pretty much every doctor/nurse/Counsellor/psychologist in the book is not a nice character.

Do you think that is a justifiable characterization of real life doctors, etc? I know I have met some perfectly nice professionals who are just there to help me, I'm not sure about you guys.
I'm not saying that Emilie is lying or exaggerating in this book because it is the truth after all, but I dunno...
I'm just curious of this is changing you're views at all, or if any of you can relate to her bad experiences with doctors.


This is like saying "I know that a few Muslims are extremists - so they must all be terrorists". You can't just stereotype like this - it's dangerous. As a general rule of thumb stereotypes aren't a bad thing; if you never looked at the cover of a book you wouldn't read any books. But in this example it's quite naive. How can we say all doctors are like that? If we need ask, then they are not.

I've had shit doctors - be it of the mental or not. One of my doctors told me I should stop having sex with my boyfriend, and I guessed this was simply due to his religion (from what I heard he is Islamic) , but either way he kept telling me it was wrong and I'd get infections and die. I've also had psychologists tell me that I'm just attention seeking, despite the fact he wasn't giving me therapy he just watched over it; when the person who gave me therapy told me I suffered several mental illnesses.

Of course I can relate; but I'm not idiotic enough to let a book dictate that all doctors are bastards. It's just NOT the case. I love the book to bits but it's too biased to make bizarre claims like this.

But I've had brilliant ones - from teachers to psychotherapists, from surgeons to nurses - to do a job of this nature you'd have to want to help people. Yes, some sadist may get the odd kick out of it and a few people are in it for the money - the same as any proffession. But it's just not realistic to stereotype on this magnitude.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:10 pm 
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it's not strange that it looks like every nurse/doctor/whatever seems to be, not nice. The two words are almost the same and that is why the characters have similarities and you must agree that in the old times a lot of those Asylums had creepy doctors and stuff.

My therapist was a bitch, she might have been doing her job well, but she just didn't fit into my world. I also know that there is a journal entry from EA where she talks about her new therapist whom she likes. This is just a reflection of a short while and the therapist she talks about in the beginning of the book might be harsh but she is right, your therapist is not your best friend and they have to answer to someone above them, the law or anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:24 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that there are just assholes in every profession. If anything I'd like to think that jobs revolving around treating others would attract sympathetic people. Maybe most people in the mental health field are nice but just get worn down over the years. Which if so would be tragic.


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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:50 pm 
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lepapillon wrote:
I'm pretty sure that there are just assholes in every profession. If anything I'd like to think that jobs revolving around treating others would attract sympathetic people. Maybe most people in the mental health field are nice but just get worn down over the years. Which if so would be tragic.


That's what I meant to say; you always say things so well <3

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:47 pm 
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Yeah, I agree with what you said as well. There are idiot teachers, yet there are also awesome teachers. Some people in general are just...mean while others are so kind and caring.

I have also had some excellent therapists and shrinks, and only had like...one crappy one. It's just a little frustrating to me because I am in university to become one of those people who works on the "psych wards". I am actually lined up to volunteer at one after reading break. I don't want to be a crappy therapist or councilor...I just hope people aren't going into therapy with a bias of how psychiatrists are supposed to be >.<

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:25 am 
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I've had doctors both mental and not who go on every level of the scale from very nice and caring (As of two apointments I love my new therapist) to horrible (my old therapist) to just making me far worse and giving poor meds.

I've also noticed older doctors tend to be worse, though that could just be bad luck as I'm sure there must be kind older doctors out there, and there are probably horrible younger doctors.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:04 am 
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lepapillon wrote:
I'm pretty sure that there are just assholes in every profession. If anything I'd like to think that jobs revolving around treating others would attract sympathetic people. Maybe most people in the mental health field are nice but just get worn down over the years. Which if so would be tragic.


I think this is very much the case, especially "lower rung" mental health professionals. As most people who know me from chat know, I worked at a youth shelter for a little over a year. I have been told by a lot of people that I am incredibly empathetic and I have wanted to be a therapist for a long time. I have a very strong drive to help other people and have trouble watching the news because I get angry at injustice.

By the end of my tenure as the bottom rung of the mental health profession aka "direct care" I was burnt out to the point of having a relapse in my own mental health issues so severe that I almost completely detached from what I was doing. I was disgusted by the limits of the system and the ignorance of the so called "higher ups." I was given a huge caseload and put in charge of taking care of several teens, many with severe mental health issues (think psychotic breaks, extreme violent tendencies, etc.) I worked incredibly long shifts, and I had no official "breaks" at all. I remember more often than not I did not eat during my shifts unless it was a quick grab of whatever was left over that we made for the clients (and even then half the time I couldn't eat it since I am a vegetarian and most of it was covered in chicken broth? for some reason). Keep in mind these are 10-13 hour shifts, sometimes longer. There were days when I did not get a chance to use the bathroom. I was asked to come in to when I was ill enough have trouble driving to work 12 hour shifts and basically told if I didn't come in I wouldn't have a job. A huge part of me loved what I did, but it takes a toll on you. I wasn't allowed to be "too empathetic" because it would be breaking boundaries, yet I was supposed to be teachign what appropriate boundaries are. I dont think many people would argue that it is appropriate for teen girls to ask young women (for I was only a few years older than the oldest clients I worked with) for advice on things like makeup and hair. I got in trouble for singing to the kids becuase it was "too motherly" yet I was there to take care of them. I had to shut myself off so I could get through the day.

I often butted heads with my superiors because I knew that our practices were poor. There is something fundamentally wrong with housing rapists with rape victims. My boss was contradictory and put on a "good face" when she needed to get by things like inspections. I can't get into to many examples, but one such example is when she told me to break our own policy (which we had just been required to review as part of an annual education thing) about housing a sex offender in a double room because "we didn't have the space and well, other places do that." Well, those were other places, that is a bad idea in general, and it was AGAINST OUR POLICY. But when her boss was there *I* ended up taking the fall for something similar, even though I was actually only following my boss's instructions. The training given to people in these positions is piss poor. Being "medication certified' means absolutely nothing. I was put in charge of educating our entire staff about medication interactions, and I was the youngest one (edit: youngest full timer) there. The only reason I knew anything about it is because I happened to have been on (at one time) many of the meds our clients had been on, and I probably saved one kid from having severe kidney issues after telling a staff member that lithium + ibuprofen is a terrible, terrible idea.

There is a condition called "vicarious traumatization" that is in some ways related to PTSD and many, many mental health care professionals suffer from it. It burns you out, it makes it hard to take care of yourself because you put a lot into other people, and eventually you turn into a zombie and are just trying to get by. You lose sleep and ahve nightmares, and it is hard to view innocent situations as they are. Everything is a danger, every person is a predator, etc. I got out of the situation I was in before I became a cynic at a VERY young age. And when I started engaging in some of the very practices I was supposed to help heal the kids from, I knew I absolutely ahd to leave, but some people don't have that option or that type of self awareness.

I'm not defending the crap doctors and nurses and health care professionals that are crap just because they ARE crap. There are plenty of people who are power trippers, crazy chasers, and just not suited for the job. But a lot of people burn out fast and really do want to help, but once you yourself lose the will to feel because if you do you know you'll break down and do something awful (I won't even disclose the many things I wanted to do because I still can't forgive myself the thoughts I had at the end of my work there).

Personally, I will never again go to a therapist who doesn't admit to me that they also seek therapy. My current therapist is AMAZING and openly admitted to me the other day that she regularly seeks therapy as well, when she needs it, because she needs to self care to care for others.

P.S. I think I also, in part, adore her because she also basically paraphrased "studies show intelligent girls are more depressed" by noting that intellectuals and artists are more analytical and willing to face how ugly things really are, and at times refuse to "put on blinders" to how fucked up our world is because there's something wrong with that type of ignorance. Though of course there is also genetic predisposition and chemical processes.

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Last edited by Penny Dreadful on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:27 am 
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Wow, I really don't know what to say. Thank you for sharing that!

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:07 am 
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I really didn't mean for all of that to spill out. I definitely had some very heart wrenching reactions to the book because, while never hospitalized, I've kind of "been on both sides" and while it doesn't excuse it, I empathize with both Emilie AND the professionals (except Dr. Sharpe) in the hospital entries.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:28 am 
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It kind of depends, if you are talking about actually doctors or ER doctors. I'm sorry but I hate every person at the ER, they are all completely useless and self absorbed, they leave you there for hours screaming pain, trying to give you an IV or some such thing and then try 7 times because they can't find your veins and then tell tell you to leave because there is nothing they can do. And nurse trainees are just as bad. Now if you are at a good hospital or a small clinic, well that all depends on how nice or smart your doctor is...not to imply that doctors aren't smart but you get me point.

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:11 am 
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^ I've had only good ER doctors, but ER therapists....omg...that one lady was fucking crazy. She told me that everyone in their college age is Bi-Polar and that I need to get on some medicine quick. First fucking thing she told me before she even asked why I tried over dosing. Then she out of the blue told me I would make a horrible mother. But guess who conceived a beautiful baby boy the next day? I'm a great fucking mother....


ahem, but yeah. I've had two therapists in my life. One was very sweet and understanding but she couldn't "handle" me, so to speak. So she passed me along to another lady. She was young, seemed nice, turned out to be a bitch that told you how you felt.
"I'm depressed today."
"No you are not, you are just tired." -.-
didn't help that they were only discussing why I was not christian and my bi-sexuality where I really need to be helped with suicidal thoughts and cutting....

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:28 am 
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I guess I'm basically reiterating what everyone else has said-there are good and bad people in every profession. I do have a personal experience on both sides, because my first psychiatrist pretty much wanted to put me on meds with our first meeting...and he was very disturbing. I sat in a leather chair that bounced a bit, and he sat in one of those business-y chairs that tips about, and he rolls around from his desk and leans close to my face, asking how I am, what are my interests...and first day...asks if I engage in "risky" behavior...and all the while, his ugly yellow bow tie glared at me... he was just a creep, his knees were bumping mine...I told my mom that day, and was transfered to a psychologist, who was very sweet to me. I felt comfortable talking to her, and she didn't insist me going on meds, in fact, she looked me in the eyes and said "do you want meds? because if you do, we can transfer you, and arrange it" I told her no (I saw too many of my friends change because of drugs) and she said "I thought so" and thus, we had a long trusting relationship, she showed me ways to cope with my own PTSD, and how to catch myself from falling victim to old methods of self medication.

(sorry I spilled my history, lol) but yes, good people and bad people in all professions. Reading the book hasn't changed my opinion. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:39 pm 
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To reiterate again - there's good and bad everywhere.

I see my GP fairly regularly to try to explain things to her - like my counsellor says I'm almost definitely bipolar, I shouldn't be on the medication she gave me because it's making the mood swings worse, I have insomnia etc. Despite my regular visits and obvious problems, my GP refuses to listen to the opinion of the counsellors, because, in her words "they aren't real doctors". She won't change my medication, no matter whether it works or not, because she wants to believe that it will magically cure me in the long run. She won't give me anything to help me sleep - not because she believes that I'll kill myself, but because she believes that I'll sell it to other young people for profit. My most recent visit to her culminated in the legendary phrase "you're 21 years old - you should have a job, no matter how you feel right now". If I went back to work and then killed myself, I doubt she'd care one bit. For this and many other reasons, I am now changing my doctor, and hoping that the next one will be better. Of the counsellors I've had, one has been surprisingly nice and understanding, but the other one was obsessed with Freud.....O_o

Good and bad.

@Penny Dreadful - that post was incredible, thanks ^_^ I feel realy quite educated now lol

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 Post subject: Re: Views on real life doctors/psychologists
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:55 am 
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My therapist wasn't what I would consider to be a bad person per se, she just seemed very... uninterested. Which I suppose can be just as dangerous in the right situation. I've had bad doctors and good doctors, but the doctor I had a few years ago while going through some major bouts of depression seemed legitimately concerned for my well being and tried to do what she could to help me. That being said, I've known people who have had nothing but bad luck with doctors, therapists, nurses and the like. So I suppose it's all quite relative.

If I'd had the same experiences as Emilie, I can honestly say that you would probably never get me to set foot in a hospital or doctor's office ever again. For now, I proceed with caution and just take everything for what it is. If I come across a bad doctor, I'll look for another until I find one that suits me.

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