I'm probably going to get bad reviews for this....

Patient Zero: Nickoli · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:07 am **Posts:** 144

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I love Emilie Autumn's music. It touches me. I love her stories in them, the meaning, the depth. I love seeing her live (Done it twice, met her once).

But the book....

Wasn't all I thought it would be.

It wasn't bad, that's not what I'm saying. But... I guess to me everything I read simply mirrored my own life, my opinions, my experiences, in a (this is where I expect people to get upset) in a dull sort of way.

Maybe it's because I live my life so extreme, maybe because I have been writing since I could hold a pencil, maybe because I have had so many issues since birth - Bipolar since birth, depression, anxiety, multipul personality disorder, sexual abuse from a family member for 9 years, two miscarriages, attempted suicide, cutting, being on so many meds I lost two years of my life, etc . But I expected something, insanely profound.

I guess maybe to someone who has never had these issues, it was. But, sometimes, I just felt like she wasn't trying hard. I know, I know, she wrote the Emilie with a Y in the psych ward, but...I've been there too. I know it isn't easy. But I also know she revised it once she was out to make it book worthy.

But it seemed...to simple, the way she linked her life to Emilie with a Y. Like, how could she have *not* noticed she was writing it, with the similarities. Perhaps throw in more of her life, less of Emilie with a Y, seeing as the book was 'everything you'd need to know' about her. Yet it felt most of it was about With a Y...

I dunno. I guess the book just, didn't touch me as deep as I thought it would. Or as much as it did to everyone else...

givemeaxerxes · **Joined:** Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:06 pm **Posts:** 477

You know, that's perfectly find that you didn't like it or it wasn't what you expected it to be. As long as your respectful and you backed up your opinions, which you did, I don't think you should apologize for feeling that way. With all the people that bought the book, surely someone has to not like it as much. And that's alright.

From what I've heard, the more Emilie's experiences are foreign to you, the more shocking it may be. For people who have been through a few of the things that Emilie has been through, such as self-harm or mental illness may relate to her accounts. But I suppose for people like you, who have experienced everything and beyond, it may not be all that novel.

I hope you don't get bitched out for your opinion. Regardless, it's great that you got to read it.

Draegn · **Posted:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:24 pm

My book sits with the sugar: untouched.

givemeaxerxes · **Joined:** Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:06 pm **Posts:** 477

Aw, Draegn; is it because you don't want to read it from what you've heard or have you just simply not gotten around to it?

Draegn · **Posted:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:31 pm

^^^ There are other things in front of it, and I wonder if it will ruin the idea that lies within my mind.

Rat In A Tea Cup · **Posted:** Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:51 am

Patient Zero: Nickoli wrote:

But it seemed...to simple, the way she linked her life to Emilie with a Y. Like, how could she have *not* noticed she was writing it, with the similarities. Perhaps throw in more of her life, less of Emilie with a Y, seeing as the book was 'everything you'd need to know' about her. Yet it felt most of it was about With a Y...

Now this is just my opinion, and I respect yours, I'm not bitching at you in any way.

I too have been in a psych ward. I'm sure you know all this, I'm just backing up my opinions;

Being locked up can be an experience beyond imagining, it's that bad, it was for me, Emilie, and I'm guessing you? Coupled with all the environmental effects; not being allowed out, rarely being allowed visitors, forced into a maximum security ward where you don't belong* - with people who definitely do belong there, the fact that you have no credibility whatsoever, sexually abusive doctors**, and a complete lack of control over anything you ever do. Those are only a few, and this is coupled with drug overload. Being on that many meds isn't healthy, you completely lose touch with reality, which finally brings me to my point. When you're in there, eventually you don't know what's real. Perception, thought process, logic, it's all screwed. I was having violent hallucinations from meds that were supposed to help my schizophrenia. To cliche myself, I thought the doctors and nurses were trying to kill me. In truth, a few were trying to fuck me, but that's a different story...
I digress; my point is that once you're in there, with no hope of getting out, you need to create that world for yourself, and protect it at all costs. She may have not realized the letters were coming from her partly because of the effect of all the shit that goes on in there, and maybe subconsciously too, because she couldn't bare to lose her only escape, you read how devastated she was when she 'came to' if you will. Also, as Emily is basically Emilie's victorian alter-ego, her past mirror's EA's and there's a lot of historical and emotional similarities, if you read between the lines.

*one of the many eerie similarities beween our stories, the sad fact is, it's so common. I know not all wards are as such, but our respective ones certainly were. Wow, I even manage to ramble in a foot-note...

**Again, not all wards.

Phew. Sorry about the rant post. That took longer than it should have, because I had to remember back into when I was in the middle of that time. I need tea. And yes, even my most serious posts are bright pink. It's a comfort thing.

[face_hugs]

Patient Zero: Nickoli · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:07 am **Posts:** 144

I didn't mean to apologize for my opinions. I am very fond of them and I feel I need to express them. Because everyone who has posted has been in love with it. And it feels like, to me, those who it wasn't what they expected have been afraid to say anything.

And I understand creating alternate realities. I myself have done that. I have multiple personality disorder, and some of my personalities have personalities. One of the parts of me is Nickoli. Is this filthy, vile, beautiful creature who thrives in the Asylum. I live a very fucked up life. I guess...I expected more. I could gather most of this from just seeing her live/listening to her music/hearing/reading interviews.

I guess my thing is...I was hoping for more.

The historical similarities aren't all that great. I mean, most of the TAFWVG's was basically a steam-punked version of a stereotypical horror story asylum. Many asylums then really weren't like that. Yes, some were. But also, many asylums now aren't like that. It is the perception that they are that bad. They are bad because someone goes against their will. Yet anywhere where someone is forced to go is bad. But if there is good outcome, no one acknowledges that.

I have been locked up several times. One was heart-wrenching and horrible, yet the other it was helpful. The doctors aren't truly as horrible as they are made out to. So it seemed to me like what was going on wasn't comparing historical realities, rather pointing out only the bad parts that only happen sometimes. Taking something that happened and making it worse. Yes, I am guilty of doing that. In my head, in my world. But I don't put it out into the world and say it is truth. I make sure to say that it is my version, my opinion, what I have dealt with and how under stress I was.

If the psych ward she was in was so respectable - like she said it was, most of the things she preserved happened *couldn't*. Yes, in the Victorian times, they could, but not now. I guess I was hoping for more historical background and more of her saying it was her opinion. (She calls it an Autobiography, and when hearing autobiography, or biography, many people assume it is biased, yet they assume some form of unbiased truths. Yes, she says it is her opinion and her experiences, yet...I dunno, something felt off) Because the way the information was presented made it seem like that was 100% fact.

*Sigh*

It is just frustrating, I suppose. She put the book out there to show how things haven't changed, when really what hasn't changed is the people. The doctors and the knowledge have vastly improved. They want to help, they want to learn. But it is the patients who sometimes make it hell.

I know this because I did this to myself many times before.

Yet...

I suppose I am rambling. She wants the world to see how it really is, yet all she gave was her side. The side of someone who was under stress, delusions. Not what actually happened. What happened in her mind. Those are very different. Yet both are real. Yet, she didn't - in my opinion - do a good job of showing that just because she didn't have a good experience, that it may work for others. All I see is everyone on this forum rallying under this idea and saying doctors suck. Asylums are bad.

I love my Asylum. It is home, it is safe. Though I have gone through hell in other asylums, not all are bad. I don't think many 'muffins' realize that. They see that Emilie had a hard time, therefor ALL psych-wards are the same. That anyone who has gone had this happen. Because they are muffins, many will not think for themselves. Many will say that because Emilie said it, it must be truth. And as of now, I doubt many people who don't know EA will not read the book...

MelindaJayne · **Joined:** Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:06 am **Posts:** 164

Patient Zero: Nickoli wrote:

One was heart-wrenching and horrible, yet the other it was helpful.

I think the important thing to gather from this (Your experience, and EA's) is that asylums tend to come in two varieties: either really really terrible, or really really helpful. And while it's good that the helpful ones exist, as long as the opposite end is still there, and still allowed to keep going, then asylums in general will be given a bad name. If enough attention can be brought to the horrible experiences to force them to change, then all asylums can be made to provide quality, helpful care.

Of course, I'm aware that's extremely idealistic. Which is unusual for me, but good. Must be the new tea. ^.^

Patient Zero: Nickoli · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:07 am **Posts:** 144

To me though, no one will do much to change it, they will want to eliminate them. The world needs to see that yes, it is good. And from all the people I have met and have kept in contact with from my stays, not everyone had a great or a terrible experience. Some were just...stays. They were there. It did not much. It wasn't a nightmare, but it didn't turn the world around.

I completely agree that it would be great for people to realize the bad rep and change it, yet if people only hear the bad, they will stop listening to the good. They will hear 'Asylum' or 'psych ward' and think, 'this is nonsense, there is no point, all it does is fuck you up more.'

But if they see how much it works for others, how it can change someone's life around, they will want to work for that. They will have something to aim for.

Like cancer walks. (This is the best I can come up with right now). People want to change something horrible by finding the cure. They find the cure because they see how amazing life is. Life is the good. If all they saw was the bad, the cancer, the death, the depression would overtake them and they'd give up. They'd lose their fight.

They need to remember, to see what they are fighting for.

MelindaJayne · **Joined:** Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:06 am **Posts:** 164

That's a really great example. But what had to happen before cancer walks were organized was a bunch of people realizing, hey, this is really awful, we need to fix it.

I'm advocating the same sort of idea. Show people enough bad, and they'll HAVE to do something about it. Especially since, "madness is a nuisance, and no one is immune."
Sorry, had to throw that in.

And even EA said, she didn't belong in the ward she was put in, she wasn't violent or anything. She just got stuck there because the ward she should have been in was too crowded.

Patient Zero: Nickoli · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:07 am **Posts:** 144

Oh, I completely do agree with that. And the fact she was in the wrong ward was horrible.

Yet, I still feel people will read this book and think that if you have a problem, fix it yourself. Don't let a doctor know, or they will fill you up with pills and lock you away.

When that is the wrong idea. You should go to a doctor. Get to know them. Trust them. THEN open up. Because doing it alone is wrong.

Just because pills don't work right away or for some people, for others, they are lifesavers. And it just seems that people won't think of that or realize that. Because so many die-hard muffins will take her word as law.

No offense to any die-hard muffins, not saying everyone is that way, but I have seen many of the forums and I do see how some of these people think.

It just...scares me that people won't think for themselves after reading the book. They won't think like they should, they will just assume that mental illness is something to deal with alone so you don't get sent to hell. When chances are more than likely it will be good...

MelindaJayne · **Joined:** Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:06 am **Posts:** 164

Hm. I think it mostly depends on the sort of person who's reading. Like...if the person who's reading the book is willing to let a book think for them...maybe they wouldn't do so well in an asylum, anyway.

Rat In A Tea Cup · **Posted:** Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:41 am

She did say this was her experience. She did say not all wards are like that. She made it clear. She talked about doctors who had helped her, and doctors who had not. The point with 'not much has changed' is that it's the attitude that hasn't changed much. I have spoken to lots of people with lots of different ward experiences, and I know, as I said, that your perception is warped, but a surprising amount of the time, there is remarkable clarity. The reason you have to 'delve into madness' and create your own world is because you recognise the reality and sometimes the horror of what is happening to you, and those around you, and have no choice but to form your own reality, or you just... face the wall. Even some staff of wards have testified to this. The patients are treated with disdain. There's something wrong with them, that must be cured. The cure is lost sight of, and the experience becomes a problem in itself. For what must be the hundreth time I've said this, yes, every ward is different, there is no plain black and white. There are the helpful ones, and the not so helpful. The thing is, there are the aspects of the negatives of victorian asylums in all wards. Even if it's miniscule, it's still there - it's inevitable. It's where the mad people are locked away.

She says at the beginning of the book, and again throughout, yes, if you have a problem, see a doctor, but also try and help yourself etc. I think - atleast, that's highlighting the duality, there is no simple answer, no easy yes and no. You do have to think.

I'm sorry if anything I've said is preaching to the converted, appears belittling or argumentative. It's nothing of the sort, and I respect your opinions and all you've been through and are going through now.

Cupcake! · **Posted:** Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:35 am

I'm actually with Nickoli on this one; while the book was great, it didn't really live up to my expectations. Mostly it was the hospital entries, they were too few and far between, and didn't really tell us much. It focused more on Emilie's hospital story as she saw it, and didn't necessarily give us the facts when we finally did get to the next hospital entry after a gazillion long (although good) asylum entries. The book really did feel like it was about Emily-with-a-y a lot of the time. Now, that is not a bad thing by any means, and as I said the book was great, but... it's not really what was advertised. It being described as "the most complete account of bipolar disorder ever penned" and not really getting into much detail on the subject (or at least not enough that someone who doesn't have it would learn much about it) and saying it was going to "tell you everything" when probably 70% of the book wasn't even about Emilie herself, but her alter ego... well, it was disappointing.

I definitely think this book, if it is the only thing one bases their judgement of psych wards on, will give them a very skewed perception of what it is/was actually like. Emily-with-a-y's story seems to be a very "worst case scenario" type asylum. Yes, I know asylums back in those days were HORRIBLE, but I do think it is slightly exaggerated.(However, that is what EA's whole show is all about; showing the dark underbelly of the Victorian Era, and some of them I know were that bad, so this is understandable.) As for the hospital entries, I have never been in or really read about many modern day psych wards, so I can't really say how accurate her story is in showing what most stays are like. But it definitely will make many muffins take the mindset of "doctors and asylums are the most horrible things ever and avoid them at all costs even if you do need help," which can't be healthy, as I know that as bad as Emilie's experience may have been they can, and do, help many people.

But, like I've said already, I thought the book overall was great. And I still love Emilie and her music sooo much (probably more than I did before I read it). So please don't shoot me, guys. ._.

Patient Zero: Nickoli · **Joined:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:07 am **Posts:** 144

Like Cupcake said, the book was proclaimed to show the truth behind bipolar, behind depression, behind these things, when most of it was behind Emilie. Yes, I know Emilie is Emilie is the point of the book, but it really didn't teach you much about the way things are for those with these ailments. Just a lot of worst case scenario after each other. And yeah, that does happen sometimes, but I was expecting to read more about the facts of medicine, the facts of bipolar, the similarities between then and now in the medical sense, that sort of thing. I was looking forward to more on why she did things or what goes through the mind of a person with these things. I wanted to know what someone else with my issues thinks. But there was one drug diary, one cutting diary and one suicide diary. By the way the book was advertised for so long, I thought most of the book would be that sort of journaling, with the victorian asylum mixed in, not vice versa.

And Rat In A Teacup, I know she did say it, but she also talked more about With a Y and how horrible she had it. But it was very hard to tell what was an exaggeration/warped sense of reality and what really what happened to her - wether it be in the past, with her depression/bipolar/etc, or during her stay. Because yes, she does say it was just her experience, but most of the With a Y stuff seemed like it was made worse just to get the story across. And yes, that is what writers do, but Emilie is not an author. I expected more from the heart flat out truth. That is how it read to me.

(For some reason, it changes every e.m.i.l.y to emilie. But when I go back to edit it, it says it's spelled like the former...)

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